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Post by numbat on Jun 25, 2009 11:56:35 GMT
Not that there's anything wrong with that of course (being gay, not being severely repressed!!!).
Oh tipou, why so harsh on poor Albert. He had many, many faults for sure but he WAS married for 15 years to a mentally ill woman who had been severely emotionally & physically abused as a child. Yes he is to blame for not stepping up and doing more about it but he was clearly ill equipped. And who's to know what he had already tried before they arrived at this very sad state of affairs leading up to the events portrayed in the film?
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Post by rueful on Jun 25, 2009 12:16:20 GMT
That is an interesting question, How long will Albert suffer? At the end, his obsessive nature has been reformulated to focus on Nancy and her life and death. The compulsive part of OCD is an extreme repetition of ritual to overcome anxiety. The ritual makes the person feel safe and in control. But Albert's handwashing and the cleanliness have been set aside in favor of looking at the emails, over and over. Thus, you might think he is not dealing with her death any differently than he did her life; he has ritualized it and therefore is not really touched by it. But (based on Rufus's sublime performance) I tend to agree with Numbat that Albert has been jarred out of his own self-involvement (another symptom of ocd). Through looking at the emails and wondering what it all meant, he is finally figuring out that someone else was in as much pain as he is. Maybe he will eventually figure out that Nancy and he had some things in common--her rituals (cutting, etc) were an attempt to take control, similar to his. Also, as evidenced by the phone call, he has friends who still have not given up on him, which Nancy clearly did not. If he'd truly sunk permanently into hopelessness, most likely after a year he would have pushed everyone away. I suppose I may be being slightly too optimistic, but I could see Albert someday coming out of it a bit. I don't foresee him walking around in pink shirts, but maybe seeking help from a therapist. Closeted gay? That's an interesting idea too, Tip. I hadn't thought of that. I tended to assume the reliance on prostitutes and (ahem) self-help was a way to avoid the "messiness," both physical and emotional, of sex. Thanks, numbat. Spice also kindly explained this point to me. I am apparently far too sweet and innocent (or dense) to figure out such mature material. At least I was smart enough to know it didn't look right.
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Post by tipou on Jun 25, 2009 15:06:11 GMT
Not that there's anything wrong with that of course (being gay, not being severely repressed!!!). Oh tipou, why so harsh on poor Albert. just to set the record straight, i am not a gay-basher. all said is, if he is and in the closet, it explains a lot. and i was not harsh on albert. i never said he was responsible for his wife's state of mind either. i think you can agree that he did not help, at least not in the way nancy needed to be helped.if he did , we were not shown any sign of it. i only said, he has his own load of problems. at least nancy tried to see a therapist. he is not even doing anything to help himself. we saw him one year after the fact, he had ot changed, except for the luggage under his eyes, and he was still scratching at the booboo, reading nancy's emails. there are probably reasons for his being that way, but since the movie makers did not show us, i cannot comment on those. just because rufus is the actor, does not mean that the character has to be sympathetic to me anyway. i dont think he tried to make him so he would inspire pity. he just showed the guy as he was. as i said, it s a tremendously successful performance.
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Post by tipou on Jun 25, 2009 15:12:41 GMT
but I could see Albert someday coming out of it a bit. I don't foresee him walking around in pink shirts, but maybe seeking help from a therapist. Closeted gay? That's an interesting idea too, Tip. I hadn't thought of that. I tended to assume the reliance on prostitutes and (ahem) self-help was a way to avoid the "messiness," both physical and emotional, of sex. again, nothing in the movie makes us believe that albert maybe happy, or even balanced, at any point. any venture beyond the movie is conjecture, and i dont tend to think happy thoughts because rufus plays the character. it IS a character, after all, and ROOFIKINS like them complex. as for the prostitutes, he never said they were females, and the "mess" he alludes too might be the "emotional mess", since any display of emotion from his wife is totally ignored by him, positive or alike. in fact, he does not seem attracted to females in any way. he interacts betterwith louis than with nancy!
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Post by rueful on Jun 25, 2009 17:18:58 GMT
Very true, but if you do not go beyond what is explicitly stated, what is the point of discussing the themes of any film? I did find Albert a bit sympathetic, and that was due largely to the fact that Rufus portrayed him. Not because Rufus is hot (he was minimally attractive to me in this film), but because of the acting skill he brought to the role, showing us the human being behind the impassive mask, using mostly his eyes and his fleeting expressions. There are probably some other very talented actors who could have accomplished the same feat, but it happened to be Rufus. I found Maria Bello's character sympathetic too, and she doesn't do anything for me from an attractiveness standpoint. I do think your idea of his being gay is an interesting possibility. Nancy was the only female we saw him interact with, though, so it's hard to say if he would be attracted to others or not. But he definitely is able to joke around and socialize with men in a way that he didn't with Nancy. It must be a worthwhile or at least a successful movie to have gotten us to such deep discussion, despite what the stupid NPR reviewer said in that link you posted.
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Post by tipou on Jun 25, 2009 18:15:48 GMT
Very true, but if you do not go beyond what is explicitly stated, what is the point of discussing the themes of any film? I did find Albert a bit sympathetic, and that was due largely to the fact that Rufus portrayed him. that is the trademark of worthwhile movies, that we have different opinions of it. and i guess rufus is good enough for me to forget he is in a movie, and that i can appreciate the role for what it is. for such a man to just about become ugly shows some talent.
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Post by numbat on Jun 26, 2009 1:13:39 GMT
Mmmmm, certainly a film to elicit strong discussion and differing opinions & this is why it's so powerful.
Tipou, i didn't mean to suggest in any way that you were a gay basher. That was just my poor attempt at humour using a very old Seinfeld reference ("not that there's anything wrong with that"!!!).
I don't have sympathy for Albert just because Rufus was the actor though. I think the point that rueful & i were making is that it is Rufus's ability as an actor that enables him to give a seemingly unlikeable character that small ounce of humanity that makes you wonder about his backstory and what will happen to him in the future, rather than writing him off as a souless zombie. He was certainly not physically attractive (well apart from the bath scene - sorry - poor attempt at humour again!!). I think it is the mark of a great actor that Rufus can elicit a sympathetic reaction towards Albert in (some) of his audience whilst in the hands of someone with less talent Albert would be less of a flawed human and more of a complete bastard.
Downloading Nancy is certainly a thought provoking piece of work. I think the key here is that it is not clearly defined who are the victims and who are the perpetrators (as much of the time they are not clearly defined in life).
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Post by tipou on Jun 26, 2009 2:02:54 GMT
Mmmmm, certainly a film to elicit strong discussion and differing opinions & this is why it's so powerful. Downloading Nancy is certainly a thought provoking piece of work. I think the key here is that it is not clearly defined who are the victims and who are the perpetrators (as much of the time they are not clearly defined in life). exactly. it would be too easy to devide people between good and bad... there are grey areas in life. as for our weird triangle, they are more unhappy than bad, even louis. and dont you worry about me, i like a hearty discussion, and i am loud, but its all done in a friendly manner here and i know it its only so good to have one of those (hearty conversation) avout a movie at all. movie worlds seems so bland sometimes. thank god for the ROOFIKINS of this world who make us look outside the hollywood fare!
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Post by dirtygirldiva on Jun 26, 2009 16:04:52 GMT
Well I paid the $6.99 to rent the movie from OnDemand. I was already upset and kind of out if from watching MJ videos and news coverage, so I guess you could say I was in the right state of mind.
I to do not understand why people left the theater. The only part that was truly disturbing to me was the scene where Louis had Nancy tied up on the bed and used a broken piece of glass to pleasure her...that was a bit squicky to me...I'm glad the scene ended when it did, I may have hurled my recently eaten pizza.
I liked the direction and the pace to an extent...but I think the director could have slimmed down on all the flashbacks. I guess I like my movies to be a bit simpler. I like a beginning a middle and an end...in that order. Throw in some flashbacks for story telling purposes, but when the whole movie jumps between past and present, it loses some of its impact for me.
What I find a bit weird is how Louis can be so into inflicting pain on others but he treated his dog with such care...men and their dogs I suppose. I'm just glad the director spared the poor beast...I would have been bashing this movie if they had involved the dog in all the crazy crap that was going on.
Ok what is it with Rufus and his last two movies in relation to sex scenes? C'mon...I mean in Vinyan he drunkenly made love to a corpse of a wife and in DL he angrily masterbated on his mentally disturbed wife...This is not good. I mean I LOVE seeing our dear Ru in nothing but skivvies, but fugly grey skivvies? Nah. The bath scene was kind of satisfying though. Did anyone else happen to notice the dark patch through the glass that was suspiciously close to a certain area that we all here seem to be drawn to sometimes? Or was that just my wishful thinking?
Overall a depressing movie about a large number of the worlds population. With some Ru tastiness to go with it.
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Post by tipou on Jun 26, 2009 20:12:24 GMT
TOTALLY O.T. : YEAH!?? WHAT ABOUT THOSE SEX SCENES? DGD, i wondered the same thing. when will we again see a " normal" sex scene involving ROOFIKINS? errrrrrr... come to think of it, have we ever? LET ME QUOTE YOU HERE, DGD: in Vinyan he drunkenly made love to a corpse of a wife and in DN he angrily masturbated on his mentally disturbed wife...even in T&I, ok, he was sweet all right, but isolde acted as if he was 156 years old and smelling of ben-gay. (and we did not see even a shadow of a naughty bit.) the "sirenus interruptus" sex scene in " the she creature" was not bad, but weird as hell. so the best ones would be the "almost sex" scene, and the "morning after" scenes from TOTS? a bit frustrating. oh, but how about the "afteer seeing that i did not sleep for days" sex scenes from " dangerous beauty"... a little too beautiful and orchestrated, but... you know... eh... open a window, someone?and the "oh my god, call the firemen, the mattress will burn" sex scene with helen mcrory in " charles II " (not on your a&e dvd version, mind you, but on the original bbc one, available on youtube - you americans are such prudes !!!). yes, that HAS to be the best. even if you felt like screaming " NOT THE BEST TIME TO DISCUSS POLITICS" during most the the last half. ahhhhh no. best one is in " in a savage land", real sweet and realistic and believable, but, then again, we saw only the "preview". so what about a healthy roll in the hay? - almost, in " cold comfort farm" - but we got in the barn too late. in " illuminata"? he got humiliated. in " helen of Troy"? it was rape. in " paris, je t'aime", he has to violently hit his head against a tumbstone before his girlfriend stops calling him dull and lets him kiss her, so god knows what he had to do to get her into bed. better not go there at all. in " the holiday", he obviously had been having a nice time, only they only refered to it once. in dark city... he probably had, only he could not remember. in " arabian nights", he was too dumb to realize he could, and then the story ended just before the wedding night, damnit. in " victory", " martha, meet frank...", " a knight's tale". and "carrington", he was ready for the violins to start playing, but he ultimately did not get any at all. in E.H., his wife friggin' died, and then he could not even react to his partner opening the door half naked , and kept his deep knowledge of biology for silly scribblings on white boards, so forget about sex scenes, people... in "extreme ops", he communicates with his girlfriend through screams on phones, and hangs out with people who think skiing is a sex act, so... there again... in " at sachem's farm"... well... how could i put it diplomatically... i dont think these people ever had sex at all. even worse in " woodlanders"... he died before he even had a chance. **HAVE I MISSED ANYTHING ? BY GEORGE, I THINK I MAY HAVE.** so how about a nice sex scene in TPOTE, eh, ROOFIKINS? SOMETHING WITH A BEGINNING, A MIDDLE, AND AN END. clear and detailed illustrations would be nice too. you know. as in the standard instruction guide, chapter 1, page 1. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO MY RANT. it felt good, getting all that off my chest.
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Post by judypatooty on Jun 26, 2009 21:27:23 GMT
Excellent rant, Tipou!
I, too, have hopes for TPOTE. In the book, Tom Builder enjoys a very happy and active and frequent sex life with Agnes. And then, it gets even better for him and Ellen. If the filmmakers do even the remotest bit of justice to the first time he's with Ellen in the forest, the scene will just burn off the screen with hotness. Oh please, oh please, oh please!
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Post by Tinkerdog on Jun 27, 2009 0:27:21 GMT
Gone to Seed - they were quite successful!
.........she shot him way after the "I had a terrible day at the office, luv..." scene.............
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Post by rueful on Jun 27, 2009 0:59:28 GMT
You know how it pains me to correct you, Tipou, but in Carrington, Gertler (Rufus) finally did get lucky. Whether you can say Carrington herself got lucky is debatable, since he showed a distinct lack of style, but they did get together.
ROFLMAO!!
Anyway, your point is well taken, but I greatly fear we will not be treated to anything so good in Pillars. Any good sex scenes will probably be reserved for the younger characters, because god knows Rufus and Natalia Worner (Ellen), both in their early 40s, are considered far too old by tv/movie standards to be appealing in that way anymore. As you pointed out, even Marke was supposed to be horrifyingly old, and what was Rufus then--37 or 38?
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Post by tipou on Jun 27, 2009 2:33:24 GMT
You know how it pains me to correct you, Tipou, but in Carrington, Gertler (Rufus) finally did get lucky. Whether you can say Carrington herself got lucky is debatable, since he showed a distinct lack of style, but they did get together. ROFLMAO!! Anyway, your point is well taken, but I greatly fear we will not be treated to anything so good in Pillars. Any good sex scenes will probably be reserved for the younger characters, because god knows Rufus and Natalia Worner (Ellen), both in their early 40s, are considered far too old by tv/movie standards to be appealing in that way anymore. As you pointed out, even Marke was supposed to be horrifyingly old, and what was Rufus then--37 or 38? (hurriedly puts carrinton back in the dvd player) i stand corrected, and my rant as well. you want me to write to the prime minister about the sex scenes? errrr... stephen harper. bad idea. baaaaad idea.
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Post by rueful on Jun 27, 2009 4:32:23 GMT
"A 7 hour standoff ended peacefully today as the RCMP finally used tear gas to smoke out a woman accused of sending a series of harassing and sexually explicit letters to PM Stephen Harper. Bystanders reported that the woman, who was wearing an "I <3 radishes" t-shirt that was splattered with mashed potatoes, continuously mumbled, "Roofikins, Roofikins," as she was led away in handcuffs."
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