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Post by ginny on Aug 31, 2013 19:39:36 GMT
Well, I'm finished. Any suggestions on how to do this? It's a whopping 24 pages long . While it belongs here, do we want a 24 page post? BTW, Emily mentions three times that the sound of the bell means that the mad people need to go back in. Somehow, from the third time, when she seems to address the listener, I get the impression we are considered to be included as the mad people too...
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Post by Laila on Sept 1, 2013 7:47:29 GMT
Well, I'm finished. Any suggestions on how to do this? It's a whopping 24 pages long . While it belongs here, do we want a 24 page post? You can upload it here: freetexthost.com/Or you can send me the file and I'll upload it on a reliable server.
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Post by ginny on Sept 1, 2013 16:05:41 GMT
Laila, you've got mail! And if anyone can tell me what is being said at the two instances marked with , I'd be very grateful. Eventually I managed to clear up all the uncertainties, except for these two (or three?).
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Post by Laila on Sept 1, 2013 16:22:23 GMT
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Post by barbicanbelle on Sept 1, 2013 20:25:31 GMT
Do I believe in the Juggler? Should I? Do you? Are you there? Or are we all Rufus' thought experiments? Oh my! that was well weird! and quite brilliant.
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Post by kygal on Sept 2, 2013 11:30:46 GMT
Thank you Ginny and Laila!
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Post by ginny on Sept 3, 2013 12:46:29 GMT
More dissecting went on while listening yesterday night during my computer experiment. Well, the play was the experiment, so I listened to it twice and missed my beauty sleep again. The Fat Man seems to speak in film quotes: Wizard of Oz (Dorothy) Norma Desmond, Sunset Blvd. From North by northwest, unnamed man at prairie crossing. Julian Marsh, 42nd Street. Rick in Casablanca. Dr. Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters. And my first (and certainly not last) mishear : From Chinatown. Walsh. Anyone caught anymore?
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Post by rueful on Sept 3, 2013 16:29:58 GMT
I'm late to the party, but that won't stop me from throwing my two cents in (and mixing metaphors )! First, thank you to everyone who has provided links since the broadcast, and especially to Ginny for sharing the massive effort she put into transcribing the play and to Laila for making it available to us! ! I didn't get to listen to Darkside until this past weekend, but now I've listened 3 times. Several things struck me. First, the music. I was never a big Pink Floyd fan, but I had it inflicted on me countless times in my distant youth, particularly this album. I hadn't heard it in years, and it's improved with time, or maybe I have. The song Time, especially, struck a cord. [SPOILERS]Second, I liked this play a lot. It was clever and funny but, beyond that, it was thought-provoking. Every once in a while it's nice to have a reminder that we share responsibility for the good--and bad--in this world. I thought Stoppard (and the actress who played Emily) did an excellent job of capturing the distress and outrage of a teenager who is confronting the hypocrisy of the adult (that is, the real) world--the differences between what children are always told is good and right, and what the adult institutions of society actually allow or encourage us to do. Even though I am well past this stage of life, I live with someone in the midst of it. Adina phrased it very well: I am younger than the album, but I am older than Emily. I don't think one has to belong to a certain generation to cross the emotional threshold (as Ms Killjoy from The Telegraph said), the play deals with timeless problems. I can feel the horror of a young person who face the world. Later we have methods to handle these things, but the first meeting with the "big questions" is shocking. This is a random thought, but I loved how at the beginning, in the superhero Ethics Man segment, everyone spoke with an American accent. I guess we Americans must take the blame for those cartoon cliches.... Another thing that hit me was the parallels between Emily/Mr Baggot and Thomasina/Septimus from Arcadia: Both pairs represent a questioning, brilliant, intuitive girl and her intelligent-but-not-quite-able-to-keep-up tutor. Emily talks rings around Mr Baggot. I have listened to the radio play of Arcadia with Rufus many times, and there are several echoes in Darkside. Emily is a Thomasina for this century. I can't decide if Mr Baggot was supposed to be a fellow patient or not. I'm leaning toward not. He did obviously go off the rails in the eraser scene, but I think it's partly because Emily isn't there--his most challenging but most interesting and thoughtful student, the one he's actually having an impact on. The other students laugh when he can't spell Nietczzchie..... I think at the end he's visiting her and this isn't the first time he's visited (as when he finds her in "jail" before the trial). He's got flowers from the class, and she tells him to follow the signs to the main gate, which he couldn't do as a fellow patient. (Although I recognize that the gate goes both in and out.) This brings me to the end. There are deeper meanings, but I'm going to go shallow, of course. When Mr Baggot returned and was talking to Emily after "the laser," it reminded me a lot of the scene at the end of Arcadia, where Septimus and Thomasina dance. If you listen to Septimus as they dance in Arcadia, and then to Mr Baggot, the "Shhhh" is very similar. Of course, it's the same actor, but I don't know...Maybe it was the way both actors read some of the dialog, and the sounds in that part of Darkside were weirdly intimate. So, is my mind just in the gutter (again), or are we meant to think that there is a little romantic longing in that scene? The Fat Man seems to speak in film quotes: Wizard of Oz (Dorothy) Norma Desmond, Sunset Blvd. ....... Anyone caught anymore? Excellent catches, Ginny! Here's another Fat Man quote: "Hasta la vista, Baby," Arnold Schwarzenneger, from Terminator 2. (I'm a little embarrassed that I knew that one without looking it up.)
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Post by adina on Sept 4, 2013 17:40:25 GMT
It is so good to read a new interpretation! I like how we place the emphases on different things. And I always like the new bits! I'll pour some drops into our cocktail, let's shake it again and get drunk. He did obviously go off the rails in the eraser scene, but I think it's partly because Emily isn't there--his most challenging but most interesting and thoughtful student, the one he's actually having an impact on. I have another approach to that scene. Stoppard gives a story, but the main line of the radio play is a thinking process. Ethics Man took action as a Nietzscheian egoist, Mr Baggott's scene represents why it can't be accepted as the solution. Yes, the students would take obediently what the teacher writes on the board, but the challenge is too big for him. (No, not because he has a hard day.) I see it as a great metaphor! "Who has the eraser?", how do the mistakes get controlled? "I’m sick and bloody tired", to produce the good in this way is too much for him. It ends with an "I will not live like this" scream. It continues with Mr Baggott's line in the jail scene (this is his next appearance):"I can’t fly."(!!!)"I can flounce a little. But I’ve decided the superman idea is unsustainable for anyone who’s relatively sane." I don't see the romantic colour in the ending. I love love love your Arcadia associations, Rueful, but in that part, Emily is getting more and more tensed as she starts to speak about her fear and Mr Baggott uses the same soft tone to try to soothe her as Doctor Antrobus's. Not the same, okay, but you see what I mean. Septimus kissed Thomasina before that 'shhh'. That sort of intimacy is an earthly thing, it belongs to the mysterious side of this planet. Somewhat irrelevant now. Well, this is just an opinion, of course. Thank you very much, Ginny, for the text. It helped me to correct my mishearings. There are some lines or things where I still prefer my own version. The Faber announced a few days ago that they are publishing Darkside this November. Until then the instincts will rule. P.S. "Nietczzchie"? Your spelling jokes are evil, Rueful. I still remember when you poked fun at Jacob. He wrote a very serious scientific thingy on the board and you said he just couldn't spell 'CAT'.
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Post by rueful on Sept 5, 2013 11:55:26 GMT
He did obviously go off the rails in the eraser scene, but I think it's partly because Emily isn't there--his most challenging but most interesting and thoughtful student, the one he's actually having an impact on. I have another approach to that scene. Stoppard gives a story, but the main line of the radio play is a thinking process. Ethics Man took action as a Nietzscheian egoist, Mr Baggott's scene represents why it can't be accepted as the solution. Yes, the students would take obediently what the teacher writes on the board, but the challenge is too big for him. (No, not because he has a hard day.) I see it as a great metaphor! "Who has the eraser?", how do the mistakes get controlled? "I’m sick and bloody tired", to produce the good in this way is too much for him. It ends with an "I will not live like this" scream. It continues with Mr Baggott's line in the jail scene (this is his next appearance):"I can’t fly."(!!!)"I can flounce a little. But I’ve decided the superman idea is unsustainable for anyone who’s relatively sane." As usual, adina, you're explanation is brilliant. I tend to be a lot more literal, and I have interpreted mr baggot's descent as the frustration of a teacher who, after years of dealing with thoughtless, uninterested students, is thrilled by, but at the same time can't handle, the challenges put forth by a student who actually thinks about what he has said to her. But you're interpretation is more in line with something that sir tom would develop. I should have emphasized that i meant on mr baggot's part, not emil :Dy'us. However, in either case, I'm aware this was my own silly thought. This is what comes of listening to Rufus whispering in your ear at night. Will i lose your all you respect if i tell you that it's easier to make a joke than it is to look up how to spell...that guy's name? I swear i don't know how people do it. I'm typing this on a mobile device and it's taken me about ten hours, give or take nine and a half. Please ignore typos and random smilies.
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Post by nell on Sept 5, 2013 19:45:37 GMT
Thanks to Ginny and Laila for all your work I'm loving reading all these interpretations. It's great to see the conversation's ongoing about this many layered play.
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Post by GreenEyesToo on Sept 8, 2013 17:55:48 GMT
Thank you very much, Ginny, for all your hard work, and to Laila for making it available to us all. I've also enjoyed reading all the thoughts and interpretations of the play - I think people get a little bit intimidated by seeing Tom Stoppard's name on a piece of work, but actually I think he's a lot more accessible than people give him credit for. This is clearly one of those plays that can be enjoyed at only one hearing, but even more so on repeat because I've been picking up on things I missed before. My favourite is the "eraser" scene. Yes, definitely shades of Rev. Duchemin in his frustration there! This is what comes of listening to Rufus whispering in your ear at night. Sighhhhhh..... <wanders off in a daydream>
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Post by Laila on Sept 9, 2013 21:44:00 GMT
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Post by kygal on Sept 10, 2013 10:23:42 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by ginny on Sept 10, 2013 16:38:11 GMT
Thanks for the link Laila. Excellent catches, Ginny! Here's another Fat Man quote: "Hasta la vista, Baby," Arnold Schwarzenneger, from Terminator 2. (I'm a little embarrassed that I knew that one without looking it up.) And I am more than a little embarrased that I forgot this one. It was the only one I caught live and didn't need to google and that was apparently reason enough to completely forget to mention it. Thank you very much, Ginny, for the text. It helped me to correct my mishearings. There are some lines or things where I still prefer my own version. The Faber announced a few days ago that they are publishing Darkside this November. Until then the instincts will rule. You're welcome and feel free to share your version. Maybe you can fill in the bits I couldn't hear.
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