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Post by stama on Aug 14, 2010 14:27:41 GMT
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Post by wichiwoman on Aug 14, 2010 14:31:13 GMT
Nice, Martina! I think this the only episode we saw him actually smile, isn't it?
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Post by kygal on Aug 14, 2010 20:10:14 GMT
Thanks Stama...I needed that! May sound silly but I needed a little Rufus comic relief after that episode and had to watch TOTS today. Maybe Kerry can write a happier ending to epi 5...not sure I want to go through that one again. Rufus was brilliant though. Will continue to watch...but...sniff..it wont be the same.
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Post by nell on Aug 14, 2010 23:30:03 GMT
Not silly Kygal. I thought the same before I'd even watched episode 5 in anticipation. I had a heck of alot of trouble watching it technically speaking this week. I am now ready to throw something out of the window.... I agree it won't be the same without Tom. I'll continue to watch though. Couldn't possibly not see it through to the end. Can I also make a request for numbat to re-write the ending. We've had 2 come back from the brink of death - lets have a 3rd one. That sword actually missed you know and he faked the whole thing. (that was my ending anyway. ) I was waiting for Ellen to run to Toms side and throw herself down promising to marry him if he got up off the ground. Not looking on as if to say damn - now who's going to do the building work !
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Post by stama on Aug 15, 2010 8:01:35 GMT
Was again a little disappointed ( as with Tom on Jacks "death")at Ellens reaction at the end. Thought she may run to him or drop to her knees. I understand Ellen reaction. It was her second love what she's lost her way, she was probably in shock, like OMG why??At that moment, you have a vacuum in the head and heart.
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Post by wichiwoman on Aug 15, 2010 12:27:42 GMT
Maybe Kerry can write a happier ending to epi 5... I'm willing to bet she's got a few ideas rattling around in her head right now.
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Post by kygal on Aug 15, 2010 13:01:09 GMT
Stama...you are right. I will give Ellen a break. I did have to show epi 5 to my mother so I had to watch it again. Ellen was crying...not sure I noticed that the first time since I was in a stupor myself! Dont think I will watch the end again though. I am looking forward to all the baddies getting what they deserve in the end. Will be interesting to see how the sum it all up in the 3 hours left.
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Post by numbat on Aug 16, 2010 10:48:14 GMT
Well.... Well.... Well.... firstly, even thought i'm going to talk about the show, i'm not going to put it behind the spoiler bar, simply on the basis that this thread is called "Seen TPOTE - Discuss Here" so really i think it's obvious that we're going to be discussing the show!!! To be quite honest i'm finding the spoiler bars a bit distracting when they're used in every post (can you tell i'm in a VERY BAD MOOD~~~) I don't know if everyone else agrees, but if the thread is clearly a spoiler discussion then obviously the posts contained in that thread are going to be spoilers!!! That said, the rest of this post will very obviously contain MAJOR SPOILERS so don't read it if you don't want to be spoiled (so to speak!!!) OK, this is what i really want to say: Dear Makers of TPOTE, You are a bunch of complete and utter B*****DS. How dare you kill Tom Builder with NOT A SINGLE ONE of his issues resolved. He died unmarried He died without spending a happy life with the woman he loved He died without telling Jonathon that he was his father He died without resolving any of the issues between Jack & Alfred He died without having bequeathed his precious tools to either of his sons The only saving grace was that he died looking at his cathedral...... How could you do that to him? I am very, very, very VERY UNHAPPY....... Yours in extreme sadness, Numbat I shall now go and find a quiet corner to sob
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Post by joyceinva on Aug 16, 2010 18:33:20 GMT
My only real question - was Tom's exit from the book as, er, dramatic? sad? horrible? as the mini-series? If so, I may have to re-think my decision to read it.
A good episode, up until the end. Sigh, but I guess it had to happen. The only (and I do mean only) good thing? Rufus definitely gave an emmy-worthy performance. If he isn't nominated for his work in POTE next year it will be a crime.
The bad guys better get in in the end. I want them all to die really, really, really horrible deaths.
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Post by judypatooty on Aug 16, 2010 18:58:04 GMT
My only real question - was Tom's exit from the book as, er, dramatic? sad? horrible? as the mini-series? If so, I may have to re-think my decision to read it. Yes, Joyce, it was just as horrible and shocking in the book. I never saw it coming and after Tom died, the rest of the book just wasn't quite the same. That said ... don't let Tom's death put you off reading the book! It's really very, very good! And yes, the bad guys get what's coming to them in the end! P.S. Numbat, I agree with you wholeheartedly! About the overuse/misuse of the Spoiler button in this thread and about how awful the screenwriter was not to have made this one little change from the book!!!
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Post by kygal on Aug 16, 2010 21:47:47 GMT
Oops! I quess I am quilty of over-using the spolier button here. Hard to have a new toy and not use it though. Wasnt sure what the situation was for it. Sorry to annoy....but sometimes thats what I do best...just ask my kids...hehehe.
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Post by spice on Aug 16, 2010 23:12:18 GMT
Sad... ? Yes... very, very sad. As I understand it though, the screen writing followed the book as far as Tom,s death and the unresolved issues that Numbat listed. Am I correct in this? Rufus's acting was, well, what can I say... "genius" as I have communicated previously. He showed such sternness with Alfred, and then such love and gentleness with his son, Johnathan, whom he could not acknowledge as his own. (I would love to see Rufus interact with his own son, Billy). I must add a heartfelt and sincere, "Thank You", to Rufus for an amazing performance. There is no actor better, he is the BEST !! P.S. Hey ladies, I definitely could watch at least one more episode, or two, of Pillars. Just have Rufus (Tom) demonstrate how to chisel stone, plan the building of a cathedral, dig in a quarry. Why didn't someone ask me for my idea The ratings would double !!!!!
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Post by numbat on Aug 17, 2010 0:00:30 GMT
Sorry ladies, I didn't mean for a second to complain about your use of the spoiler button. It's there for a reason and it's perfectly legitimate to use it. I was just thinking that seeing as this was a thread for the purpose of discussing the mini series that we could probably go without here. It's just i was in such a foul mood that it came out all wrong!!! Sorry ;D That's not to say that i'm not still in a foul mood. After crying my way through dinner last night (much to the amusement of my family) i woke up at 4.30am thinking about Tom and started again. SPOILERSFor those who haven't read the book, he obviously does still die, but it's handled slightly differently. It's still heartbreaking and i still cried when i read the book. But he has his head kicked in by Hamleigh's horse - which probably would have been worse to look at (it was quite gruesome), but he wasn't killed by his sword and Hamleigh didn't say to him "it was all for nothing Tom Builder". So i think his death was worse on screen. But my issue with the mini series is really the treatment of Tom & Ellen's relationship. Even though Tom still dies in the book, he just lived an overall happier life. They began their intimate relationship much, much earlier, so that when she upset the bishop and disappeared into the forest, they had already been together "properly" for some time - unlike the show where they had only recently consummated it. She then stayed in the forest with Jack for one year, at which point she returned to Kingsbridge (at the time of the King Stephen's visit). Tom proposed to her immediately that he saw her and she accepted. Philip forgave her "sins" and she and Tom married. So by the time he died, they had lived happily together as husband and wife - in an actual house - for some 5 years or so. No, he hadn't told Jonathon of their relationship, but in the book he never attempted to. I thought it was terribly unkind to have him nearly tell the boy and then have it ripped away from him like that. Whether he would have actually told him or just asked if he could be a father to him as he was to Jack - which i think is what he was leading up to saying - it was just cruel. And the fact that he said Ellen had come to see Jack and not him because she was unhappy with him for conspiring with Philip to have Jack become a monk. So he didn't even die feeling loved by her. I just think that Tom's treatment was terribly harsh - he had a hard enough life in the book, but it was so much worse in the mini series. To give the most noble character in the piece the very saddest life is just cruel - and lazy filmmaking. I don't think it was called for, in much the same way that the incestuous relationship between William & Regan is uncalled for. Just cheap thrills. Mmmmm, obviously still in a bad mood. I'm feeling the need to do some bonding with my laptop right now. Tom needs some serious love........ Later: I've been thinking some more, and i realised that what i haven't commented on is how awesomely f***ing brilliant Rufus was in that episode. THAT is why i'm so devastated by Tom's death. It's because Rufus has the ability to rip my heart completely out of my chest simply by practising his craft the way that he does. Every one of his scenes was played with finesse and subtlety and pure emotion. The life that he breathed into Tom Builder was simply beyond compare. < still sobbing >
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Post by vmaciv on Aug 17, 2010 2:59:41 GMT
Numbat You are absolutely correct and your summary is wonderful. Unforunately both methods of death are gruesome and heartbreaking because the character is a wonderful character. Rufus Sewell is a wonderful actor and his performance is both beautiful and heartwrenching. In all his roles there is a humanity that makes his characters come alive.
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Post by numbat on Aug 17, 2010 7:27:33 GMT
I agree vmaciv. The only thing i wanted to add this morning's post was that Tom's death in the book was much quicker. It goes like this to be exact (and i will put this behind a spoiler bar for those who haven't read the book and don't want to read it now: "Then a massive hoof kicked him in the exact centre of his forehead, he felt a dreadful frightening pain as his skull seemed to burst open, and the whole world went black" So it was much quicker and he didn't spend all that time laying on the ground dying - what would have been going on in his mind at that point before William stabs him with the sword is too dreadful to even contemplate. There's also a really beautiful passage about Jack kneeling beside his body, which i'm going to replicate here for anyone who wants to read it: Jack knelt beside the body. He felt the urge to do something or say something, and for the first time he understood why people liked to pray for the dead. "Mother is going to miss you terribly," he said. He remembered the angry speech he had made to Tom on the day of his fight with Alfred. "Most of that wasn't true," he said, and the tears started to flow. "You didn't fail me. You fed me and took care of me, and you made my mother happy, truly happy." But there was something more important than all that, he thought. What Tom had given him was nothing so commonplace as food and shelter. Tom had given him something unique, something no other man had to give, something even his own father could not have given him; something that was a passion, a skill, an art, and a way of life. "You gave me the cathedral," Jack whispered to the dead man. "Thank you" I guess we're going to have to struggle through the funeral in the next episode (if they have time for such trifling matters!), and if so, I hope they include some of those words from Jack. If not, that last line really should have been included at the very end of Ep 5 instead of him (and us) just crying.
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