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Post by ambra on Feb 13, 2009 23:51:18 GMT
I think the way Rufus played it may suggest a subtext that spice mentioned. Technically, he didn't have to cradle the baby in his arms and talk sweetly to her in order to his job. Doing so, however, made him more human and it also made me wonder if he and his wife had been planning a family before she was diagnosed with cancer, maybe making him wonder what could've been if his wife had lived. I also liked the lines with that scene, about why is there no grieving mother in the waiting room or a father crying out for her, reactions he probably felt he and his wife would've had if the baby was theirs. I also noticed he seemed to touch each baby briefly as he passed the bassinets, which I thought was a nice little addition added by Rufus as part of the character.
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Post by tipou on Feb 14, 2009 0:26:10 GMT
It was good, but I think they should have dragged Gephetto out a little. Like in CSI...The first season saw Grissom and Paul Millander dancing around each other until Paul finnaly killed himself before Grissom could apprehend him. And again in the 7th season with Natalie Davis (AKA: Miniature Killer)...Those two were Nemesis's...Gephetto was just a crazy psycho bi*ch with a God complex. I liked the scene in the hotel room and I liked seeing Kevin Alejandro again. But other than that this episode was a little blah to me. Of course Ru was gorgeous but it just seems like they could have done soooo much more. i liked the episode, i found it more interesting than the first ones, but i see what you mean. for example, why have gepetto issue a death warrant on hood and have no follow up on it. they could have taken an opportunity to bring back rachel's earlier description of a body guard as required by the fact that hood's life was presumably often in danger. although i liked the killer to be honest and matter-of-factly about his job ("by the way, she wanted me to kill you"), which seemed more realistic an attitude for an hired gun than to make him the usual cruel blood hound, like many shows would have done. i agree as well with the opportunity missed about the "nemesis" that someone like hood would be likely to attract. it would have been even more conceivable than on CSI, but the writers of CSI are better and are not as lazy when it comes to develop continuity. perhaps EH's writing team are learning as they go. next they should really find out what continuity means. talking about the hired killer, anyone knows this guy? i thought he was quite good. |
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Post by tipou on Feb 14, 2009 0:31:51 GMT
I think the way Rufus played it may suggest a subtext that spice mentioned. Technically, he didn't have to cradle the baby in his arms and talk sweetly to her in order to his job. Doing so, however, made him more human and it also made me wonder if he and his wife had been planning a family before she was diagnosed with cancer, maybe making him wonder what could've been if his wife had lived. I also liked the lines with that scene, about why is there no grieving mother in the waiting room or a father crying out for her, reactions he probably felt he and his wife would've had if the baby was theirs. I also noticed he seemed to touch each baby briefly as he passed the bassinets, which I thought was a nice little addition added by Rufus as part of the character. well, when hood explained his attitude by talking about science, i found it a bit disappointing. either another opportunity missed by the writer to tell us more about hood's past, or, hood was not telling rachel everything. |
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Post by peach on Feb 14, 2009 0:49:49 GMT
I liked this episode a whole lot. I've noticed a big change in the quality of the writing and story line as a whole. It was rather melancholy too, his whole expression and tone changed. Wondering if perhaps science and technology isn't always a good thing. Something like a Pandora's box. His mannerisms are amazing, the look in his eye when he held the baby, reactions after the press conference when Rachel asks him what's wrong.
One thing I've always noticed in any performance he gives is that he's always reacting, really listening, and taking everything in. He did that in this episode and did it marvelously.
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Post by tipou on Feb 14, 2009 1:03:27 GMT
i only hope that they wont make hood into some kind of "saintly" figure, though. he's bound to have his darker side.
might be a dangerous trap for roof, trying to counterbalance his "baddie" image too much.
again, i liked the ep very much, and i appreciate that change in tone and the upgrade in the writing (although there is still room for improvement there). but there is a serious risk of hood becoming an unrealistic, unbeleiveable wimp.
i will please DGD by mentioning as an example the great william peterson. his gil grissom was very much the bumbling scientist, but there was always that dark edge to him that he did not needed to expand upon, you knew it was there.
in the last two eps, jacop hood was a kind of mix between simon templar (a "saint" in the sarcastic sense of the word), columbo and adrian monk. that was the perfect balance, i think.
unless we are revealed more about hood's reaction to the babies and gepetto's actions, i am a bit afraid this character can become too much of a good guy. which can be as irritating as a baddie who is too much of a baddie. if you know what i mean. i would not like him to turn into a cartoon super hero.
after all, look at rachel young. she is a "good guy", there is no doubt about it. but she definitely has an edge to her.
do i make any sense?
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Post by lizap on Feb 14, 2009 2:17:48 GMT
Yes, perfect sense. I think they did set Hood up as kind of a quasi-saintly figure. In the beginning, the word 'priestly' even occurred to me, because of his obliviousness and/or awkwardness in situations with women (the young lab student, the grateful wife of the dying man, Rachel in the shirt). I thought it was in 'Miracle' that he seemed most flawed, when Rachel exposed his rather self-centered perspective on that situation. And then there have been the various anti-macho incidents, such as when he ducked in the car in 'Miracle', and last night, when he cowered when the gun was pointed at him. So I think they're aware of the need to have him be imperfect; it doesn't seem as though they've quite figured out that aspect of the character. I think he should remain morally irreproachable, as I think Monk and Grissom also were (only watched a couple seasons of CSI). I do want my heros to be good. But he shouldn't be a saint. I don't think, though, that there is a Grissom kind of darkness in him; I think it is more of a sorrowful innocence, much closer to Monk. |
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Post by tipou on Feb 14, 2009 2:24:42 GMT
I do want my heros to be good. But he shouldn't be a saint. I don't think, though, that there is a Grissom kind of darkness in him; I think it is more of a sorrowful innocence, much closer to Monk. yes! yes! yes! absolutely. - and i appreciated that he "cowered" about the gun. that's the sensible thing to do. that is the kind of things that make a character BELIEVABLE. |
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Post by lizap on Feb 14, 2009 3:11:12 GMT
- and i appreciated that he "cowered" about the gun. that's the sensible thing to do. that is the kind of things that make a character BELIEVABLE. Yes! I've appreciated each time he has done that, because I think maybe your average actor playing a hero would balk at doing that, or would manage to do it in such a way as to guard his heroic image, whereas each time Rufus has done it, it is utterly believable, that he is scared. I remember laughing that time, I guess it was in H20 when they arrived at the factory and Rachel told him to stay in the car with his head down, and he said, 'Rachel!' so reproachfully, because that is exactly what I was thinking, in the same tone of voice. I thought, 'Oh my gosh, is he really going to stay there with his head down?!' And he did .... for awhile anyway. Not normally what you see your hero doing! |
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Post by rueful on Feb 14, 2009 6:02:05 GMT
Oh how I hate coming so late to the party! But that won't stop me from throwing in my own review!
I liked the character development, even for the guests, but the plot was a little weak, as often seems to be the case. For example, the old woman, the hit man, and the nanny and her boyfriend were pretty well developed and believable characters, especially when you consider they each probably had a total of 10 to 15 minutes' screen time (much less for the sick woman). But then plot details wave like big banners in my face, shouting, "huh?" Why were three babies conveniently in car seats so they wouldn't roll around the truck, but the fourth was in her arms? If you were in prison for working for a murderous mad scientist, would you accept a box of chocolates from one of her henchmen? Why are still so many payphones in Texas? Did the cleaning people at Gepetto's hotel notice the hospital setup? It's like they have one pretty good writer working on characters and dialogue, one mediocre writer coming up with storylines, and one monkey sitting at a typewriter working out the details.
I think one reason the characterizations are so strong is that they seem to hire good actors. Thank goodness, because bad acting would really stand out next to Rufus's great talents. Also, Marley's character has really been fleshed out over the last episodes, so that I like her much better. She has a pretty strong personality of her own now, while I used to think her quite bland (because of the writing, not Marley's acting, which I thought was fine).
Finally, I totally agree with all of you who approve of the "cowering," although I prefer to think of it as "prudence." It takes training not to duck instinctively in the face of a gun or other danger, and Jacob lacks that training.
PS Rufus + baby in his arms = totally melted heart
PPS Edited to add that I wonder if the reason they wrapped up the geppetto storyline so quick is that they weren't sure if they'd get a second season.
PPPS Since that was a depressing thought, I'm going back to
Rufus + baby. AWWWWWW!
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Post by tipou on Feb 14, 2009 14:41:20 GMT
as for payphones in texas, there are still quite a few in drummondville, québec, so i bought that one. you are being finicky here.
cleaning people vs. hotel room setup = money buys everything. that did not surprise me.
rufus and baby: priceless.
2nd season in question: well, in the starlog interview, rufus says that the prospect of EH lasting for many seasons "does, frankly, scare the bejesus out of me. the notion of security always worriesme slightly". so, even if he says also that playing hood for a while is not the worst thing that could happen after all, it is not very encouraging for people eventually putting their money for more shows.
ok so i watched the show again, and i think that we read too much into any subtext that may not be there.
hood=biophysicist. so cloning is his cup of tea. he is after gepetto who totally masters the technique. so, he has access to this science. when he tells rachel that he was "dizzied" by the prospect of such a thing, he might mean he has litterally been tempted to "play god", which would explain that he did not open up to her the first time she inquired about his mood.
having appeared on TV denouncing gepetto, he knows he has definitely crossed out that option, that his choice is to stay off the "dark side", so then he confesses to rachel.
which adds another colour to his meeting with the old lady. remember the look in his eyes when she tells him of the load he carries with the things he sees? he might have felt like she "unmasked" him and made him realize waht he was considering to do.
that would also explain why he reacts so cooly when gepetto offers him her science. he had already considered the offer.
i was begging to see hodd's dark side, and i was not seeing it as it was thrown into my face!!!!
i'm telling you, it's all sewell's fault. he's too distracting. i keep staring at the screen drooling, and i cant hear a thing.
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Post by rueful on Feb 14, 2009 16:04:10 GMT
I'll see your finicky and raise you one. Is he the only hit man on the planet without a cell phone? Even if he lost his, it wouldn't be hard to get a new, untraceable prepaid one, and certainly a lot easier than searching for payphones while you're in a hurry trying to kill someone and avoid the FBI. Besides, it's my job to complain. In fact, some would say it's my lifelong calling  As for Rufus's fear of EH's success, that is beliveable coming from him, since he's fought so hard against typecasting his whole career, and yet maybe it's also a bit of superstition, not wanting to jinx the show's possible success by proclaiming it. (Said by someone who often plays both sides of the superstition coin herself.) They always show him being so knowledgeable about all kinds of science that I forget his specialty. I'm glad you mentioned it and explained your theory. I was kind of wondering why he looked so disturbed by what the old lady said, and now I wonder if, for example, he thought about or even made moves toward going to the "dark side" in similar ways when he was desperate to save his wife. |
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Post by tipou on Feb 14, 2009 17:51:14 GMT
yeah. ok about the phone, you are very efficient as a complainer. you win on that one.
about the second point also, come to think of it. rufus seems to be quite superstitious, i have read a couple of things about his fear of "jinxing" project. i guess if he were a hockey player, he would dye his hair blond during playoffs (oh... the horror...). although, if i were a cbs exec already dubious about the EH second season, and came across this quote, i would certainly grab my cell phone at once.
about the fact that dr. hood might have been tempted by the "dark side" to save his dying wife, i had the same thought. he told the old lady that her daughter would not be the first to envision such extremes to save a loved one, and while he said that, his stare was quite intent and dark. i guess the final comment from the wise old lady was a wake up call, which he would have taken seriously, since he instantly seemed to grow some kind of respect for her.
in other words, i understand things very fast. its just that i need them to be explained 2 or 3 times LOL
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Post by rueful on Feb 14, 2009 20:53:26 GMT
Yay! What a nice change. You're very insightful (especially when you say I win  ) And since you're often explaining things to me, I wouldn't dream of questioning how fast you are. |
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Post by lizap on Feb 14, 2009 22:48:40 GMT
hood=biophysicist. so cloning is his cup of tea. he is after gepetto who totally masters the technique. so, he has access to this science. when he tells rachel that he was "dizzied" by the prospect of such a thing, he might mean he has litterally been tempted to "play god", which would explain that he did not open up to her the first time she inquired about his mood. having appeared on TV denouncing gepetto, he knows he has definitely crossed out that option, that his choice is to stay off the "dark side", so then he confesses to rachel. which adds another colour to his meeting with the old lady. remember the look in his eyes when she tells him of the load he carries with the things he sees? he might have felt like she "unmasked" him and made him realize waht he was considering to do. that would also explain why he reacts so cooly when gepetto offers him her science. he had already considered the offer. i was begging to see hodd's dark side, and i was not seeing it as it was thrown into my face!!!! They always show him being so knowledgeable about all kinds of science that I forget his specialty. I'm glad you mentioned it and explained your theory. I was kind of wondering why he looked so disturbed by what the old lady said, and now I wonder if, for example, he thought about or even made moves toward going to the "dark side" in similar ways when he was desperate to save his wife. I do think they were probably meaning for us to think of his wife, in the scene with the nice woman when he says (paraphrase), 'It wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone go to extraordinary lengths to help someone they love.' Especially since Rachel gave him a pointed glance when he said it. I don't think it necessarily means that Hood contemplated doing something unethical to save his wife, but certainly he can empathize with the temptation of being willing to do just about anything to save someone you love. When Hood is explaining himself to Rachel in the later scene, he says that when he was holding the baby (at the beginning of the episode), he considered what it must be like to be Gepetto. In light of the fact that right at the beginning, Hood had such dark thoughts (about being 'Godlike'), the teary episode later on makes sense to me. Those heavy thoughts have been weighing on him the whole time they've been running around, and in those quiet moments they come to the fore and he has a chance to consider them more fully. tipou, I find I'm not buying the idea that Hood had actually been tempted by the prospect of 'the dark side', and that the TV announcement represented a kind of turning point to him, but I think it's certainly a legitimate interpretation (and very interesting). I'm more inclined to think that he was just fully realizing his feelings the first time Rachel asked him what was the matter, and so wasn't ready to talk about it. After re-watching the whole episode, I'm still of the mind that the ending doesn't make sense unless those babies were clones of Gepetto (particularly in view of the things Hood says to her about organs). |
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Post by rueful on Feb 14, 2009 23:42:41 GMT
Lizap, when I posted before I forgot to say I completely agree with you and Ambra that the clones are of Gepetto. She could easily have tricked the rich daughter, who couldn't go to the authorities when she found out. In fact, I don't know why, but it never occurred to me the whole episode that those particular babies were for the rich woman. Whenever the assassin called Gepetto, she was surrounded by test tubes and in a dimly lit room that didn't seem like that rich woman's room, and the old lady also didn't seem to be at death's door, as Gepetto was implying. I just figured they were for someone else. However, I had no clue they were really for Gepetto, so that was a pretty good twist to me. Except for removing the only "nemesis" Hood has.
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) And since you're often explaining things to me, I wouldn't dream of questioning how fast you are.