Seen TPOTE? Discuss here

[walt]

Kygal, your eyes are ok.

Just have a look at Stama's screen-caps ep 7 + 8!

[kygal]

Yes...the screen cap cleared it up. Thought I was right...pic was much better than my tv. Thanks!

[numbat]

Well the finale was great wasn't it!

In a true old fashioned way, the baddies got their just rewards, and the goodies lived happily ever after to see Tom's great dream completed.

And in hindsight, maybe Tom's early exit wasn't such a bad thing - at least he avoided the terrible wigs and "old man" makeup (humour me here - i'm trying to look on the bright side!!!)

And i made it all the way through without crying - until i saw his face carved into the cathedral. Then i was a basketcase again

A bittersweet ending indeed.......

[rueful]

The finale was satisfying in many ways. As Numbat wrote, the baddies all got what they deserved.

It felt very rushed to me though, and the hanging scene was a bit like the ending of an old Perry Mason mystery. One person stands up at the trial with new information, or Perry harasses the witness, and then all hell breaks loose and the guilty parties confess. It was wrapped up too neatly.

On the other hand, the fact that they spent a disporportionate amount of time on the early years meant we got 5 episodes of Tom instead of just a couple, so I should just shut up.

(Except to say the love scene between Jack and Aliena was exactly what we should have seen between Tom and Ellen. Not just for the nudity. Really. For the tenderness and love. And the nudity.)

Things I liked were Reagan's death at William's hand, and Waleran spitting on Philip, defiant and full of hatred til the bitter end. Also, the battle between the townspeople and William was fun, if a bit unrealistic. And I was totally surprised about Cuthbert. That was good misdirection.

Finally, I do wish they had resolved the story with Jonathan. I guess that was supposed to be him, a brief glimpse of a young monk helping Johnny Eightpence out of the church at the end, but it would have been nice to know he'd been told his true origins, especially for Martha's sake, since she lost everyone.

Despite the flaws though, what an entertaining, interesting series!

Edited to add: Here's a recap and review of the final episode. armchairanglophile.wordpress.com/2010/08/28/pillars-of-the-earth-a-new-beginning/

[spice]

I agree with rueful and many of you about that feeling that some parts of the series were "rushed". I think the series would have flowed better if two more episodes would have been included. And the episodes should have been shown two at a time instead of the two, then one, etc., then the final two. Some of the scenes seemed to have been cut short or incomplete. The one that first comes to mind for me is the one when Ellen was told that Jack was dead. She appears very distressed, saying something like, "..... Jack is not dead, he can't be dead".
Tom is standing in the background. He does not appear to move toward her to comfort her. To me that seemed out of character for Tom. He would have embraced Ellen in keeping with the warm caring man he was.
All that aside, I really enjoyed this series. The cast was so-o-o-o good. I am now a definite fan of Matthew Macfayden. I am looking forward to seeing him in his future projects. And I was pleasantly surprised by Natalia Worner's performance as Ellen. She played the part as Ellen with a type of cunning dignity. She was real. Her performance was from within her, not at all fairy-tale like. And I must admit that I am very happy that whomever had the final say on the casting of Ellen, did not pick a minimally talented, pencil-thin, big boobed (real or fake), wide-eyed, puffy-lipped young starlet. Natalia is a naturally beautiful woman, extremely talented. I look forward to seeing her in the future.
Of course, Rufus was perfect. We have all let our hearts and thoughts be known of his superior talent. He gives and gives and gives...what a Talent, what a Genius !!!!

[rufluvr]

Haven't yet seen the series (beyond 1-2 eps) but Rueful touched on something in the book I felt was neglected, that I'd really hoped they would address in the series--namely Martha being being informed that her brother had survived and getting reunited with him. It didn't happen in the book, which I thought was maybe just an oversight--it was sad and a shame because as awful as Albert was to her, as his kind sister with a big heart for her family, she was the only person alive who mourned him when he died. It would have been so touching and a wonderful moment on film to show Martha's relish and surprise of have a living family member she thought long lost! Well, it sounds like from what I've read they didn't take the opportunity to do that, too bad.
Spice, here's a funny thing...because of my love for period movies, I discovered Matthew a while back in his role of Mr. Darcy in 2005's Pride and Prejudice, and promptly joined the two web sites dedicated to him (first ones I ever joined)--and got my hands on anything I could that he was in--I've only done that with him and Rufus Sewell--they are both so incredibly talented. It was also through my period movie love that I caught Rufus' performance in Dangerous Beauty--which just plain blew me away, and he had been my favorite actor ever since. Just couldn't believe when my two most favs got cast in Pillars--can't wait to see the whole thing.
For some Mathew Mayfadyen suggestions, may I recomend: Perfect Strangers, Little Dorritt, MI-5 Spooks, In My Fathers Den, Death at a Funeral (original one) and of course Pride and Prejudice. Darcylicious.com is a fun Matthew Macfadyen web site for anyone who wants more Mathew info.

[rueful]

Rufluvr, I didn't know that the situation with Martha and Jonathan wasn't resolved in the book (haven't gotten to it yet), so thanks for clearing that up. There were so many threads I could see how that one might have gotten away from Follett. He must have used a lot of complicated flow charts and diagrams while writing this one!

Sounds like some things regarding this storyline were different in the series. Since you haven't seen it, I'll put the following as a spoiler and you can decide if you want to read it.

SPOILER: Click to show

In the series, after Tom dies, Jonathan (still a child) goes to Philip, and Philip tells him that "Martha confirmed it to me" that Tom had "loved your mother very much." Also, in the first episodes, we saw Martha was there when Tom found the baby. So technically I guess she knew. But that still felt very unresolved for me, because there was never any scene between Martha and Jonathan, as child or adult. So you don't know if she was ever allowed to tell him or treat him as anything more than one of the local monks. Guess it's my ridiculous need for happy endings, rearing its ugly head.

[reformeddruid]

In the book, Philip doesn't find out who the father of Jonathon is until Tom is dead. Ellen tells him, Tom never told anyone. I haven't read the second book, I don't know if the Martha- Jonathon story line continues or not. I know it is supposed to continue the story for all of the characters that are left.

Also, the last episode is finally up on Netflicks if anyone has been waiting.

[nell]

I finally got to see the last 2 episodes and agree with many of the comments particularly this statement by Rueful:

On the other hand, the fact that they spent a disproportionate amount of time on the early years meant we got 5 episodes of Tom instead of just a couple, so I should just shut up.

(Except to say the love scene between Jack and Aliena was exactly what we should have seen between Tom and Ellen. Not just for the nudity. Really. For the tenderness and love. And the nudity.)

I looked at the end for Jonathan and was a bit disappointed that I couldn't see him. There was a chap leaving the cathedral at the end that seemed to have a strong resemblance to Alfred - I wondered if that was supposed to be Jonathan - not at all clear though.

Apart from that I really enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to watching it on tv in the autumn by a somewhat less stressful method.

[joyceinva]

Been crazy busy this week and not had time to discuss the end of TPOTE.

Much as I hate to admit it, the death of Tom Builder was really necessary. I know I whined and wished that since they had changed so much from the book that they had changed that also but, they were right not to do so. In the mini-series Tom was such a pivotal character. His death was needed to set in motion the entire Jack/Alfred/Aliena story line - the cathedral, etc.

The death of William was more than slightly disappointing. Ok, yeah, he's dead and rotting in hell, but still! It was almost like an accident. I agree with Rueful - it was kind of hokey. But hey, William got killed so I guess it was all good.

Loved the end with the cathedral, seeing all the people, the carving of Tom's face.

Surprises: Jack calling himself Jack Jackson. Yes, I know he was literally Jack's son, but he said that Tom was like a father to him, it would have been neat if he had called himself Jack Builder.

Wishes: That they had linked a little more how Ellen's curses had come true. Especially Waleran, her curse to him was that he would rise high and then fall to earth. Nailed that one Ellen! I think Tom was wrong, she WAS a witch!

Confusion: I could have sworn that Martha knew that Jonathan was her brother. She knew that Tom had gone back to get the baby and it was gone. And when they got to the priory, they all recognized Johnny Eightpence as the man who attached her. AND HE NOW HAS A BABY BOY with him.

Looking forward to the release of the DVD.

[walt]

I know I'm late, but finally I'm through TPOTE the film - having read the book twice.

At first I was disappointed to read in our newspaper an announcement that by the filming of TPOTE a chance was lost. Now having seen the whole film I think I know what they meant - and please notice that this is not against anyone in the cast, but against the way the book was transferred into the final script. -

Thanks Rufus we know that when he was offered a role in TPOTE, only a part of the script was finished already. And IMHO the rest of the book was transferred into the script more according to a lot of action on the screen than on a conclusive plot. Of course they had to change the story a little bit and they tried to change the characters along the book. -

The first episode (out of 4) is close to the book, as well as a lot of Tom Builder's part. But beginning with the second episode they changed much. Even then a lot of key scenes were there. But IMHO the killing of archbishop Thomas and the revealment of Jonathan's parents should have been included anyway. This would have made a far stronger finish: Waleran degraded a simple priest and King Henry being punished by the church. And BTW it could have meant a resurrection of Rufus as older Jonathan.....- a far more satisfying end for all Rufus fans - LOL.

[rueful]

You're right, Walt. And not just a more satisfying ending for Rufus fans (although we are the most important ), but I think for the whole audience, who probably cared much more about the "smaller" characters than about who was king or queen. They might not have had to rush the end so much if they hadn't included so many battle scenes and court scenes--especially since these were not the focus of the book. So there were some lost opportunities, as you say, all to do with the script. I would have preferred they followed the book more closely.

Still, I'm really glad Rufus chose to participate, because he gave a stellar performance, and I'm glad I watched in general, because it was an interesting series.

[kissmekate]

I fully agree with rueful.

A bit less gore and a bit more of the Naked Mason would have been great, along with more Jonathan at the end (I found it a pity that they left him out completely once he was grown up, and I would have loved the Rufus resurrection idea, maybe without the beard to make him look younger).

However, Rufus was gorgeous, especially in Episode 5, and I became acquainted with some other wonderful actors like Matthew McFadyen and Eddie Redmayne, that's another bonus of having watched it

[rufluvr]

Wouldn't it have been great if they could have made the series just a third bit longer (or even better, to have stretched it out the whole season)? Suppose it is just too expensive these days to shoot such a thing. They could have stretched out the early key scenes with Tom and his family before his wife died, and then when he first got together with Ellen. These were some of the best parts of the novel, as also was the fuller introduction to Phillip's character and his history, more of Aliena's struggle and some interesting moments from Jack's travels that all got a short shrift in the series. Of course they had to edit stories, and couldn't include it all, but it was a bummer that some of the more interesting and meaningful stuff was left out, IMHO. And you all probably remember me complaining during filming when I heard they were going to leave out the dreamy ravishing of a grief stricken Tom by a desperately lusting Ellen in the dark forest scene. It was the most haunting, sexy, and cinematic scene of the novel and it stills chaffes me it was left out. Sure they put in something maybe more palatable to the viewing audience that served the edited story better- but it was still a poor subsitution. On the other hand, they did spare us the overly -long written scene when Jack sets the fire...it went on forever in the book, like pages and pages I think. There was no time for that non-sense in the film--he just lit it up and was done with it. Brevity does have it's uses sometimes, ha ha.
Well, I quibble only because I do, overall like POTE. Mostly because the fact that Rufus had so many wonderful scenes... Like most people here I've seen every movie he's made (that's available) and I think one of Rufus' best moments ever on film was his reaction when Jack finally told Tom that he had burned the priory church down so that Tom would have work, so the family could stay there. That subtle, yet powerful display of the myriad of emotions which went flickering accross Tom's face in that scene was just heartwrenching. It was also incredible acting. Such looks of raw emotion, and the inflection of it into his words as well are Rufus' great art. And don't get me started on the scene where he listens to that stupid monk insult his wife and family--and have to watch his son fall asleep on another man's lap.

Now someone mentioned there should have been more naked mason time in POTE. So true. But beyond that, when they did include those later cave visit/ booty call scenes they seemed like maybe they had been over edited for length. Though they were sweet and funny too, you got the feeling they cut some of the length and dialogue out, I don't know.
Maybe it was just a filmaking device, so the viewer could sense how short and precious their time was when they had the chance to be together.

Another thing. Sometimes Ellen's speech was a bit difficult to understand on the first viewing, I even wondered if she has a slight lisp, maybe it's just because she's German speaking English. Did anyone else hear that?

[kissmekate]

Dec 10, 2010 5:35:14 GMT rufluvr said:

And don't get me started on the scene where he listens to that stupid monk insult his wife and family--and have to watch his son fall asleep on another man's lap.

That was really heartbreaking, Tom looked so alone and lost amid all those people around that I wished I could jump in there and give him a big hug.

And his last scenes in Ep 5 were such fine acting, too - the one with Alfred and Jack when they talked about who would succeed Tom; Jack's confession; and then those with little Jonathan on the tower. It's so beautiful to watch how his face becomes all mellow and loving when he's with the boy.

I'm sorry I can't say anything about Ellen's speech as I watched the series in German