Taming of the Shrew

[Vittoria]

Feb 25, 2009 19:34:25 GMT chuckles said:

You really have a point vittoria about the man having the last word, I sometime think Im fed up of making all the decisions and want my man to just be a man and take care of everything for me for a change.

Wouldn't it be so much more relaxing and peaceful? I do believe so.

There is nothing I would appreciate more than finding a kindly gentleman whom I respect- a man who truly cares for me and is strong but gentle, seductive but a bit shy, intelligent and witty, downright sexy and irresistable to the point of causing me to swoon with as little as a glance and respects me yet takes the lead. No man has been able to tame me, but very few have actually tried. It is possible and I'm looking forward to it whenever it does happen. It's not like I'm an iron fortress.

I have been thinking about this whole subject again for the past couple of days and there is something I would like to add.

In talking about these sorts of things with male friends something which came up was that some men are quite confused with the whole liberation issue. They don't know how to act around women these days. Should they open doors for us, help us on with our coats, etc? Or will they get glared at for even trying? Should they take the lead in initiating any physical contact or will they be looked upon as being sexual offenders for doing so?

And there has always been the misunderstanding between the sexes concerning how to communicate well. This doesn't help matters any. Just this past weekend I was having a couple of beer with one of my male friends and I asked him at some point about how to communicate as this is something he has been studying lately. He said that men communicate with logic, wheres women are more intuitive. Yet, in the course of our rather lengthy discussions that evening, he discovered that I blew a lot of his stereotypes out the window as I am both logical and intuitive. So, what can we all do to improve the whole predicament? I think that just taking time to talk and being patient and good listeners will take us far. What do we really want of men? Are we able to honestly ascertain this?

[rueful]

Communication between any two people, of either gender, is hard when the people talking assign the worst possible meaning or motive to the other person. If something can be taken two ways, say as a compliment or an insult, then sometimes people tend to think automatically that the person who spoke meant an insult. Like if I tell you, "That dress really looks good on you," instead of thinking, "Oh, I'm glad someone liked this new dress," you wonder, "Does she mean the one I wore yesterday made me look fat?"

Unfortunately, some people think negatively like this all the time, but in my opinion, this happens more often in cross-gender conversations because men and women communicate differently. For example (generalizing here, of course) women worry more about how their statements come across. Women tend to soften their suggestions. If a woman has a suggestion, she might say, "I think maybe that would work better if we tried it this way." A man is usually more straightforward and says, "That'll never work! This way is better."

If I hear something like this, instead of thinking, "I should give that a try," or even "Oh, he's clueless and has no idea how to make constructive suggestions" (which sounds mean but is at least not assuming he has a bad motive), I think, "Who does he think he is, pretending he's smarter than me?" Meanwhile, the man who hears the woman's suggestion thinks, "What does she mean, 'I think maybe'? She has no idea but just HAS to say something--typical woman!"

I think we tend to give the benefit of the doubt more to people of our own gender, since we usually have the same way of talking. Which is where your point comes in:

I think that just taking time to talk and being patient and good listeners will take us far.

Being a good listener hopefully should include a willingness to give the other person the benefit of the doubt and not assume that they are trying to be bossy, mean, or arrogant or whatever motive could be assigned to them. Easier said than done, I know, since I have been married for 20 years and still haven't mastered it.

I sometime think Im fed up of making all the decisions and want my man to just be a man and take care of everything for me for a change.

Wouldn't it be so much more relaxing and peaceful?

In theory, perhaps. In actual practice, any such attempts have led to much shouting in my house.

[chuckles]

The problem is with wanting my man to take charge is that I would have to tell him that's what I want, and then Im in charge again, so Im still not being mastered.

We have a very long relationship so obviously things are not that bad

[tipou]

Mar 3, 2009 20:01:56 GMT chuckles said:

The problem is with wanting my man to take charge is that I would have to tell him that's what I want, and then Im in charge again, so Im still not being mastered.

so i guess you have no choice! you da boss!

[Vittoria]

Mar 3, 2009 20:01:56 GMT chuckles said:

The problem is with wanting my man to take charge is that I would have to tell him that's what I want, and then Im in charge again, so Im still not being mastered.

We have a very long relationship so obviously things are not that bad

Well, that's great if it's really working for you!

As I have posted earlier, submission can actually be a place of true power and that seems to me exactly what you're saying. On the other hand, simply saying that you want this or that does not mean you're in total charge. If you tell a man that you want him to take charge, you are in the position of power if he agrees, BUT the degree in which he controls things from that point forward also depends upon your mutual agreement on terms.

i.e You might say, "Honey, I really want you to take care of the finances totally. I'll take care of disciplining the children as you are too soft (or too stern- which ever the case). When we have decisions to make as to where we will go for dinner, I would appreciate it if you would ask me what I would like, but in the end it is your decision to make.... Please do let me know how things are going at work. If we have to move for the sake of your career, I will follow you. Is this agreeable to you?"

Conversation might then go towards the bedroom. A considerate woman will ask her man what he likes- would he rather the woman be forward or is it better for him that after a hard day's work, he makes a move if he is interested and has the energy?

Now, many women today might look at all of that and think I'm bonkers for even thinking it. But, for me, that is ideal. I don't have a career in the way of such an agreement nor children to care for. The man would be the breadwinner as well as being in charge of finances entirely and I would be appreciative and supportive. I would be there to help him in any way I am able and stand by him through thick and thin.

If he is even moreso in the dominant position, he could tell me how to dress and how not to dress (as long as he has good taste of course). My reason for that is that I would want to be a positive reflection of him and not make him look bad. I want the man who scoops me up to be proud of me as I am of him. That is my dream, but I could only do that with a man who will not abuse the power I give him AND he would have to be a man I respect.

For you, it seems you already have things working out well. I am happy for you!

[Vittoria]

Last night, I watched this movie again and it actually got me thinking: What if I marry a man on terms of equality and I respect him and it actually works? I am starting to like the idea of things working out the way they did at the end of this version of TOTS. My impression is that she saw him as being the Lord of her, yet he loved her enough to do anything for her as well and he wouldn't ask her to do anything she was not ok with. He's the one still wearing the pants, I think (even when in a skirt or dress), but there is more equality than what I was envisioning. Hmmmmm.

[rueful]

Hey, don't go mellowing on us!

[Vittoria]

LOL Rueful! Don't worry. It's next to impossible for me to get too mellow. ;D

[Vittoria]

Oh... blah... Never mind.... I'm so interested in getting into a 24/7 Dom/Sub relationship that I always end up back at square one- I'm a Sub... Can't get it out of my system, I guess.

[tipou]

vittoria don't you ever sleep?

[Vittoria]

;D Indeed, I do, Tip! However, I have been quite distracted lately by this website:

Warning: For Adults Only: www.steel-door.com/Chamber.html

Geez, TOTS makes me think too much!

[Vittoria]

Hmmm. Well, it seems I am now in my own personal shrew taming situation. My online temporary part-time (session only) Master has definitely got his hands full. Surprisingly though, I am reallly trying not to misbehave. ;D This is new as I am used to having far too much fun being a real challenge. And, although this is long-distance, he is a very authoritative Master.

This is an odd situation, but it is certainly got me feeling more at peace. Taking the back seat for a change is a huge relief just as I knew it would be. However, there is still a part of me that is fighting it which does make it less boring for both of us. However, the more I give in to the process of training, the more liberated I feel.

When not is session, we chat normally as peers. We got to know each other for awhile before he finally agreed to doing this for me. Another surprise to me is that although this is not a 24/7 situation, it is still very gratifying and I love playing with power dynamics consentually.

All I can say at this point is "!" and I'll be ready for a permanent Master at some point... whether 24/7 or not.

~heavy sigh~

[peach]

Vittoria, so long as your happy in your present situation more power to you. I just hope he doesn't hold you back, your a bright woman who is extremely wise, just don't let him take away these traits from you. You don't seem to be the sort who needs to have a man think for her, and tell her what to do. You are unique.

[Vittoria]

Yes, Peach, quite happy. ;D

Thank you for your comments! ~Big Hug~

Actually it is exactly BECAUSE I am a strong personality, that I need this sort of release. As I am what is called an "Authentic Sub", I go on automatic response when trained but I don't just open to anyone. Has to be a man I trust and respect and care for. Finding such a man in "real life" is quite difficult.

Most men do not know how to deal with me and I end up the dominant partner, whether in an alternative lifestyle or a "vanilla" lifestyle. Only when I have consented to being Dominated, will I be so either way. Then, I go deeper into what is called "subspace", accessing the aspect of me that willingly submits.

If this is only session play within an alternative lifestyle, I go in and come out by trigger words that only the Dom or Master and myslef know as they are prearranged. While deep in subspace, I am totally conscius at all times. No man has ever been able to take me beyond using Safe Words on a permanent basis.

Since my session Master and I are peers as well, I am not always deep in subspace, so it is not like he is telling me what to do or thinking for me all the time. We do carry on mutually intelligent conversation. If it were a 24/7 situation, then I would be under his control at all times.

Now that I have had a taste of what it is like to have a session Master, I am not sure I really want to ever go 24/7. At this point, I can't decide as it is not an option. My session Master has a female full-time 24/7 sub in real life already (and yes she knows about me). So, I am blessed he has taken me on at all. Being a Dom is a lot of work!

As for the future, who knows? Like I said, it is not easy to find a man who is capable of dealing with me let alone one who can play the role of Dom or Master and actually get away with it! I am a highly independent and stubborn individual. Hmmm... I wonder if Rufus could do it. I am betting he could! Well, a girl's gotta dream!

Anyways, Peach, Dear, don't worry about me! I am perfectly safe!

[rueful]

You seem to be in a satisfied place right now vittoria, and I'm happy for you.

Well, a girl's gotta dream!

Can't hurt; might help!

To bring this back to TOTS, I will say that Rufus's Petruchio was shown to be vulnerable and human in ways that Richard Burton's was not. I know that the scripts are quite different, and Burton had no choice but to follow the dialog of that Shakespeare guy, but I just think that Burton played him as strong through and through, so even when he was being more gentle, to me there was no sense that he needed Kate at all. It was just a game he intended to win. I prefer Rufus's version, both in the dialog the script gave him and the way he chose to portray it.