Tristan and Isolde

[ambra]

Or you can explain it this way: Men have rugged facial hair, boys don't. Tristan=boy Marke=man. A very virile, handsome man. Besides, he's the king. He doesn't have time to "pretty himself up" with regular shaving! Tristan had plenty of time to take care of what little stuble he had.

[rueful]

LOL! You are very astute, ambra. Brooding and grooming seemed to be his chief occupations.

I can remember reading a long time ago that teen magazines like Sixteen and Tiger Beat (do they still make that?) ran shirtless pictures of David Cassidy types, rather than Tom Selleck types, because teen girls are threatened by the sexuality of chest and facial hair. Hell, even at the time, I said, "Bring it on!"

[lizap]

Jan 29, 2009 18:11:01 GMT rueful said:

And just I remember how quickly those types of passions can die out. In real life many girls in such circumstances might have been drawn to Tristan. But then, after a lengthy period apart from him, and then encountering a kind, brave, intelligent man like Marke, and being raised as a princess to do her duty, and knowing all the consequences and dangers her trysts would have, I might have expected her to lose some of that passion for Tristan.

I think the filmmakers were trying to establish the concept of a love for the ages ('before Romeo and Juliet there was Tristan and Isolde'), but on the other hand, what made Romeo and Juliet a love for the ages except for the tragic consequences that ended and preserved their love for all time at the height of its passion? Would they not have eventually turned into a bickering old couple just like everyone else had tragedy not intervened? (pardon my cynicism)

I imagine that if circumstances had been different and if a marriage for Isolde had been arranged completely apart from Tristan and she not having to ever see him again after their first parting, there might have been a good chance that she would respond in time to Lord Marke. It was the excruciating circumstances here that I think made the outcome inevitable.

[rueful]

Given that T & I would be a very different story if Isolde had actually stayed dutiful to Marke, I know it's silly of me to ramble on about her choice. (T & I fall madly in love. She has to marry Marke. She sends Tristan away. She and Marke live happily ever after. The End.) Clearly, my perception is colored by the filmmakers' decision to make Marke a such good man as well as by the casting. Franco might be okay in other roles, but he was truly wooden here. Would I have thought she should have stayed with Marke and left Tristan if Franco had played Marke and Rufus had played Tristan (the ridiculousness of the age issues aside)? Of course not. Which leaves me to wish that a more compelling actor had played Tristan, so I could assess the merits of the movie and my reactions to it easier. Like the guy who played Tristan's adoptive cousin. Or Tom Hardy, who just finished brooding and ranting magnificently as Heathcliff on Masterpiece Theatre.

Would they not have eventually turned into a bickering old couple just like everyone else had tragedy not intervened? (pardon my cynicism)

I see your cynicism and raise it thus: I would have given Romeo and Juliet a matter of weeks or months. That's what's always infuriated me and yet impressed me about the story of R & J. If those two dolts hadn't been so impulsive, their adolescent passion probably would have burned out very quickly. Nothing cools teenage ardor more than actually being able to indulge it. (Which is why they call the story a tragedy, I guess). But to me, the way in which Shakespeare understands how every little thing is an urgent matter of life-and-death (no pun intended) to kids that age and then realistically captures that passion and self-involvement is amazing. I've read that adolescence as a stage was invented in recent history. Yes, it is indulged to a tremendous extent now (such as not having to work for a living), but R & J shows that the stages of emotional development were the same even then.

[lizap]

rue, it isn't silly at all for you to 'ramble on'! I enjoy your ramblings (and everyone else's)!

As for Franco, I didn't find him attractive, but I don't think I found his performance as wanting as most of you did. (Although at times I thought he was conveying stomach ache rather than heart ache).

[rueful]

Thanks, lizap. Right back at you!

LOL about Franco and his (to me) undecipherable emoting. That is the difference between rufus and franco. When rufus is staring, or smoldering, or glowering, or whatever, he wordlessly conveys exactly the emotion he intends. You can read the character's thoughts. Somebody needs to tell Franco that teary eyes that don't seem to be backed up by any thought processes can just as easily indicate that you've been peeling an onion as that your soul is in torment.

[tipou]

Jan 30, 2009 17:04:53 GMT rueful said:

[glow=red,2,300] (1) [/glow]Which leaves me to wish that a more compelling actor had played Tristan, so I could assess the merits of the movie and my reactions to it easier. Like the guy who played Tristan's adoptive cousin.

[glow=red,2,300](2)[/glow] But to me, the way in which Shakespeare understands how every little thing is an urgent matter of life-and-death (no pun intended) to kids that age and then realistically captures that passion and self-involvement is amazing.

(1) that was the excellent mr. henry cavill who has also a major role in the "tudors" series. this young gentlemen, ladies, not even 30 years old, is one good actor. and, yes, T&I would have been a more challenging story, had he been cast as tristan. i could not agree more!

(2) again, i so agree with you. r&j was ABOUT teenage, perhaps the ultimate teenage story, ancestor to "westside story", "splendor in the grass", and other poetic yet oddly correct depictions of what being a teenager is about. especially the 1968 franco zeffirelli movie version with leonard whiting and olivia hussey - wait! i have to go and cry for 5 seconds (*).

as to T&I, it was a movie made FOR teenagers. hence the horribly old and ugly lord marke who revulses young isolde when he so so disgustingly shags her on their wedding night.

dont you remember that sweet age, when everybody over 30 was so old, even if you happened to like that age group? when being 40 was something close to a science fiction possibility?

even mick jagger once swore he would never be 40, that he would rather die. well... that is one promise he discreetly forgot about... over 40 years later.

let's hope these young girls who squirmed in disgust at the thought of a senile lord marke touching the nubile isolde have matured enough to see the irony in their original reaction, when they see the movie years later.

(*) i have to tell you about this one. i saw it in montreal, as a student, in 1980, on a 12" b&w tv with the rabbit's ear antennae.

but the reception was so bad on that channel, we had to try different things to keep the image on, like attaching forks and steel wool to the antennae and such.

but by chance we found out that the only way the image would accept to stay focused was if someone would "almost" sit in a chair placed at the right side of the tv, with one foot in the air, about 3 feet above the floor.

i kid you not. i remember seeing a similar situation in one of mr. bean's skits, and i actually did not laugh, but felt his pain when i saw it.

so we were 3 girls and one gay guy absolutely intent on seeing this movie because it was sooooooooo good, and we had to take turns in the "antenna chair" to go through it, and its one l-o-n-g movie. we were all crying, and of course its mainly because of the story, but also a bit because we were in so much pain.

[tipou]

LIZAP I LOVE YOUR NEW AVATAR

[lizap]

Thanks, tipou! I found the helpful 'how to attach a photo' thread and decided to give it a try.

I can't remember where I found this photo, or what it's from. Obviously something very early.

[robbiesheik]

Jan 30, 2009 19:16:39 GMT lizap said:

I can't remember where I found this photo, or what it's from. Obviously something very early.

I am pretty sure it is from Gone to Seed. I like that pic too.

[lizap]

Thanks, robbie! I guess I'll have to add 'Gone to Seed' to my 'to get' list!

[GreenEyesToo]

Yup, it's definitely GTS.

[rueful]

Tipou, that's very funny about your yoga positions to watch R&J. I don't think I'd have been so dedicated. I wonder if you watched it now if you'd be so moved.

[tipou]

you kind of had to be there LOL
but seriously, thismovie is among my all time favourites.
we should do that... list our favourtie movies.
i will start the thread.

[eleanor]

Tristan and Isolde plopped on to my mat this morning. I am going to watch it tomorrow night. By all accounts, I am in for a real treat and judging by the pics of Lord Marke that I have seen, I know that I am!! I remember reading about Rufus doing this film, was it back in 2004 and in Ireland? At the time I thought he was going to play Tristan, then I read otherwise.
So, some nice choccy and my feet up tomorrow night (I need a break from revision!!) and I'll be swept away in to the happy, magical place, where Rufus fulfills my hearts desire!!!

A girl can dream..can't she?!!